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The DAT People's Choice Question of the Week: Pedigree Mating
Do you pedigree mate your cows and heifers? Give examples
Reader Comments
Comments posted do not express the viewpoint of Dairy Agenda Today or its staff members.
Ronald Flatness
June, 16 2020
OK..yes ,some very large herds particularly in NY state just think they have agreed on bulls with a certain Net Merit level, at a low price.The reps just delivers the semen and it gets used without paying attention to much of anything.
Tony Whitehead
June, 15 2020
Ron it really isn't a mating system. Most businesses would call it inventory management. The studs figured the guys on the golf course wouldn't go for that so they came up with a way to dump semen. The only balance sheet it helps is theirs.
Ronald Flatness
June, 14 2020
Still don't have a clue ..what pedigree mate means?
Balance Sheet Guy
June, 9 2020
I look at genomic results to see if she will milk. I look at my dairy software which proves she milks. I pedigree mate her and repeat the unartistic process. I look at my accounting software which shows I haven’t written red ink in 25 years.
Wisconsin Dairyman
June, 8 2020
My Grandfather said "Give me a cow with a wide mouth & deep ribbed & I'll make her milk".
OLDSTER
June, 7 2020
Grandpa used to say, "make sure they're wide on both ends, with a buggy whip for a tail." 70+ years have given us more tools, but those visible principles are as good today as then, IMHO.
Tony Whitehead
June, 6 2020
I didn't say it had to be a high type herd. I said a herd you respected. Integrity and Moscow were never considered type bulls. They both sold a lot of semen. Robthom wasn't a type herd in my opinion. They bred generation after generation of great cattle in a very commercial environment. That was my goal. To an extent I achieved that. Pick a path that works for you. Any good cowboy can make a cow milk. Breeding a great cow year after year is an art. Very few of those guys are left. The list of the men I watch unfortunately gets shorter every year.
banker saved my career
June, 6 2020
I currently use genomic values to determine who gets bred to Holstein and then pedigree mate to a group of bulls selected on an economic index. Early in my career I had aspirations similar to "Young Dairyman" and sought mentors much like Tony suggested. I worked off farm more and more trying to pay bills. About 10 years ago I asked my banker for money (again) to purchase females to keep my barn full. He refused unless I made necessary changes to become profitable. Long story short, I purchased genomic tested heifers from a profitable neighbor and chose profitability over aesthetics. I realized I needed a herd of profitable cows not just aesthetically pleasing individuals. Bottom line-choose mentors who are profitable not those whose business models struggle/fail.
Again
June, 5 2020
Couldn't agree more you nailed it again Tony. Sad thing is there's fewer of those with the wisdom to share.
Tony Whitehead
June, 5 2020
Young dairyman, find a herd near you that you respect. Go introduce yourself to them. Listen don't talk. I was very fortunate that I grew up close to Robthom. Bud, Marriana, and Alton were AWESOME people. Listen don't talk. If you can go to a sale or show. Watch what is going on. Listen don't talk. However be around those people you respect. Good luck.
Brandon
June, 4 2020
It only makes sense to use bulls with high numbers if they have the pedigree and conformation to back them up. Great cows are never ugly. What if someone 20 years ago decided udders were good enough? The best way to get burned by indexes is to depend on them without taking time to find the best combination of production and reliability in the bloodlines behind them. It's great to use young bulls but I prefer the young bulls to be from "old" families.
Ronald Flatness
June, 4 2020
What is pedigree mating never heard of it? Are you trying to avoid inbreeding? Decades ago many used linebreeding....Burkes,Rag Apple,Homestead etc, There was lot more inbreeding in those days.Computer mating is OK but it is a marketing ploy to sell semen on lesser used bulls.The benefit was supposedly you got preference on their short supply bulls.What they didn't tell you was they were limited to about 20% of your herd.
Your exactly right
June, 4 2020
Couldn't agree more Tony.
young dairyman
June, 3 2020
As a young dairyman, I would love to have more people who understand the art of breeding available to serve as mentors. It seems the low prices the last four years has forced a lot of great cow men out of business. I use pedigree mating more than I would like due to cost and the fact that most dairyman still in business don't care about with great confirmation.
Breeding Artfully
June, 2 2020
All methods for breeding have value and so does looking at the pedigree. I recently was breeding an Eclipse Archrival daughter from an Atwood dam. I looked at the animal and she had high pins. The pedigree said she would have high pins so I flushed her to Jacoby a rump bull with health traits. Jacoby is plus 16 for rump in Canada. So, I believe pedigree mating matters. Often as a last item to look at I look at the pedigree. Sometimes the other criteria do not make sense based on the pedigree. It is like Aot Helix. His pedigree mattered. He is higher in TPI than most genomic bulls but he was not always the highest tpi bull in his age group. Pedigree matters when line breeding as well. Numbers are not always the answer. Timing the introduction of related genes so that improvement can occur is art not always science. And putting numbers on a type pedigree works sometimes when done with the right amount of artistry. We all think that because we cannot absolutely predict genetic recombination that it is a product of luck but we come to that conclusion because we cannot believe that what we cannot know is predictable.
Tony Whitehead
June, 2 2020
Hahahaha lol Hahahaha lamo Hahahaha. I don't know what else to say.
Just Sayin
June, 2 2020
Hey Balance Sheet Guy, do you really think that NM is a better index than TPI!?...I know all you NM guys think your index is better because it has a $ on it, but when I compare the two indexes, my bottom line is way better with an index that weighs fat and protein equally and doesn't put too much influence on fat! Even if you think that udders are good enough on today's cattle not to select on it, can you really say that about F&L, and mobility of the high NM cattle? And, if you want to have a discussion around feeding the cats, many of today's NM cattle are spun so tight that they don't (can't) milk much either. As soon as breeding gets so easy that all we have to do is put one "high" bull on top of the next is when anybody thinks they can do it. There is still artwork to all of this. I've been around long enough and accomplished enough to know.
Just Sayin
June, 2 2020
Computer mating is the way to go, no interference with someone walking the cows, and for some of us, it's a good tool to help on inbreeding. Computer mating is at it's tip of the iceberg with companies trying to use all of the genomic values of the females to get us closer to more ideal matings.
Just a farmer
June, 2 2020
I have at different times through the years. Mated cows using Rosafe Citation R blood when I could. Line-bred to some of my own cows as well. Now I avoid Goldwyn in a pedigree, no matter how far back.
Balance Sheet Guy
June, 1 2020
We pedigree mate cows >530 Nm$ and heifers >600Nm$ to control inbreeding. Animals below these cutoffs are bred to beef or used as recips. Much more emphasis is placed on economics based sire selection than individual matings. We select for Nm$ but I subtract udc and flc contributions from Nm$ since type has negative economic value. Makes no sense to make tall pretty cows that don’t PG and don’t milk enough to feed the cats.
Yep!
June, 1 2020
My son hand mates all milking cows. He hand mates all 'Special' heifers. Select Sires pedigree mates our 'Commercial' heifers.